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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident that doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our head it's

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someone that's a flying saucer really

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standing in the clearing he turned over

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to my father and held his hand and he

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looked in his eyes and said we're not

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alone welcome to podcast UFO for our

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live show

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we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time on the dark matter

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radio network please remember to visit

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the website podcast UFO calm for past

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episodes blogs and forums during the

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show feel free to participate live in

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our chat room and don't forget to like

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us on our very active Facebook page

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hello and welcome to the show on Martin

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Willis your host we have John Tobin

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coming up with the news and a sec Andy

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Fleming will be joining us for part two

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on asteroids and just new technology

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that's come out that might just save our

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behinds when it comes to asteroids our

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guest today is Ryan Maliki he is going

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to be talking about incident Exeter and

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I don't know if you have time to google

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that right now but it is really quite a

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fascinating case police department

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involved in everything he's a researcher

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in the state of New Hampshire we're

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gonna be talking about other goings on

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go to podcast UFO right now if you're

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listening live and sign up on our chat

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room you can ask the guest today some

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questions or just plain interact it's

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always a lot of fun on the chat room

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that it's a podcast UFO comm one of the

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listeners writes me at least once a

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month and says for me to announce out

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there for someone to get started on a

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podcast UFO Wikipedia article now I

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don't know if that's what's involved in

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that but if you're a listener out there

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he's claiming that it's gonna generate a

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lot more listeners if someone wants to

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go ahead and do that anything for the

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show to move it forward I would

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appreciate it it's totally up to you if

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you have the time and inclination well

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that's all I have for right now next

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week we have Judy at mausoleum from the

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UFO Watchtower on John how you doing

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today I am doing fabulous Martin how are

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you

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great great it's uh we're both up in the

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Northeast here so we've been putting up

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with ill though this wretched weather

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I'm ready for spring I'm sure you are

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too I'm absolutely ready for spring we

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did have sort of a glimpse of spring

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over this past weekend that went by I

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said that was nice yeah that's right it

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was 47 degrees we had 50 here which is

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amazing I had my course my speedo on

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when a wandering down the street yeah

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you had done one up and in yeah I did

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yeah yeah not again or anything but you

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know alright so what's up for the news

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this week hey you know what's really

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cool we've got some great news on some

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new UFO shows coming on that it's great

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that time of the year where some of the

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new shows are coming out and these ones

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sound pretty yeah pretty interesting so

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let me let me tell you about some of

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these now our guests coming up for April

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2nd John venturi of Pennsylvania has

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landed the lead role in History

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Channel's new series hangar 1 the show

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will air Fridays at 10:00 p.m. after

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ancient aliens Ventre said I got the

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Georgio row only without the hair for

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obvious reasons the show hangar 1 is

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premiering on February 28th so that

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looks to be a really interesting show he

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was gonna be great guess we look forward

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to having him on and and not a heck of a

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lot of details on that but there was

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some more details and of course the full

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length to this story on our show notes

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on the your podcast UFO when he says for

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obvious reasons if you look at his

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picture he's bald yes yes and I can

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relate to that I can't pull off the

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george yeo role either way but certainly

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not for my hair there's another new show

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coming out or it's actually already

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started i believe just recently this one

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deals with abductions invasions and

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conspiracy theories about aliens which

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surround our world every day from

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nightly news to video games to the

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latest box office hit delving into the

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photoshopping of space the value of

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WikiLeaks in the role social media plays

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in alien stories alien files are furs a

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unique 360-degree at how alien

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interaction may have affected our past

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and how it will affect our future and

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the source code on this story is from

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destination America does air on the

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destination American network on

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Thursdays at 10:00 p.m. it's a half an

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hour show

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they are currently airing this show so

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you can catch them this Thursday

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tomorrow night at 10 p.m. on destination

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destination America if you want to

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go ahead and check that out you one

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thing that caught my eye in here now and

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I just heard a little follow-up on this

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story actually talking about the value

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of WikiLeaks they now have the wiki

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depends for anyone that has that problem

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so it's that's that's good to know

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yeah it's valuable information to add to

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that yeah I have that problem so anyway

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the the Science Channel there's a new

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show coming out with a kind of a

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familiar name in the UFO world it's

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called Close Encounters Science Channel

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will explore the countless UFO sightings

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which are reported from thousands of

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regions around the globe many of these

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sightings are documented and

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investigated most of them can be

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accounted for by weather patterns flight

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schedules or extraordinary imagination

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but a select few are considered unsolved

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extraterrestrial puzzles that police

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investigators government officials and

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even medical community communities

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cannot explain now Close Encounters /

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bears on Tuesday March 4th and Friday

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March 7th so I assume they'll be doing

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two episodes that week at 10:00 and

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10:30 p.m. and that is on science

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Channel which is a great Channel I think

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and again full link to that story can be

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found on the show notes now that show in

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particular arterian up in Canada and

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there was a lot of people raving about

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how good it was you know if you look

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online you'll see some you know

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naysayers but there's always that but

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still from what I understand it's a

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pretty good show now I do have to say

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that Colby Landrum who is a past guest

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on our show did somehow watch the that

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episode that involved the cash Landrum

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case and he was very upset about

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something I don't know well you know

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what exactly happened but I believe

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there was some inaccuracies that really

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bothered him so that show in particular

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I'm not sure how clear it was but most

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of the shows are pretty good from what I

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understand yeah they're getting good

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feedback I've done a little bit of

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research on the net you know just

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looking up and see what the initial

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feedback was they're getting pretty good

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feedback all things considering I think

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some of the you know as opposed to a lot

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of the new ghost shows coming out some

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of these new UFO shows they're really

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looks like they're really taking their

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time to do it right and not just put you

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know put but crap can we say out there

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so they give me something for the viewer

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to view and

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and dull their teeth into there's some

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other great news out there now this is a

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this next news story is something that I

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have thought about quite a bit it kind

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of relates to this whole you know when

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we're dreaming

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are we really dreaming or is the arc or

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conscious state the dream goes into that

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a little bit is this universe just a

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futuristic simulation who knows but it's

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certainly fun to think about is the

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universe's simulation is the headline

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for the New York Times op-ed which was

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written by Edward Frenkel a professor of

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mathematics at the University of

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California Berkeley Frankel discusses

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the unique line of thinking about

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mathematicians and philosophers

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analyzing the history of this abstract

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thought as well as the content concept

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that everything we know is a hologram

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which I find fascinating Marta what do

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you think about that yeah well first I

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should say that we're stealing this news

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from the work that Peggy does on our

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Facebook page and yes I've heard this

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this idea or theory for a number of

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years you know I mean there's so many

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baffling things in the universe who's to

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say that this isn't as good of an answer

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as a lot of the other ones it really is

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a it's really a fascinating concept yeah

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it is and I've heard a little bit about

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this but I'd certainly you know as more

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as delve into it you know one of these

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it's one of those theories that it's

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probably never gonna be able to be

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proven but it's certainly worth looking

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into you know who would you say what's

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real what's not right right

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the next story we've got is an

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interesting one too because it's kind of

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frightening to me when I we all heard

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about the everyone's familiar with the

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the Russian asteroid that crashed in in

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and injured and hurt you know hundreds

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of people about a year ago or so well

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this one is about a monster asteroid

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whizzing past Earth just a year after

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that Russian explosion a gigantic

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asteroid is was close to earth around a

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year after another exploded over Russia

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the space rock which measures about 270

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meters 880 feet 880 five feet wide

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layman's terms that's a Kardashian but

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wide race past the planet at about

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27,000 miles per hour 3:00 a.m. Central

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eats eet time on Tuesday the asteroid

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came with about 1.6 million miles of

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Earth which doesn't sound that close but

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in terms of asteroids and how far they

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hung close they normally come to earth

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that's pretty close right it is you know

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I mean I'm not sure exactly how far

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the furthest satellites are but a lot of

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these babies go right through the orbits

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of the satellites and yeah it's a little

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it's a little close and what always gets

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me is usually that's on an elliptical

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course that's coming back and you know

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actually we have Andy Fleming on the

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line and he's gonna be giving us a

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follow-up that kind of ties in to these

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this asteroid this is part two Andy was

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on for part one last week on asteroids

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and how you doing Andy fine hello John

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we're great and we're glad to have you

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on so what's uh there's some new ways to

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search asteroids right you want to talk

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about that if the people who've been

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having trouble with the rosters JPL had

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come up with something called synthetic

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tracking which is a method that set to

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revolutionize near-earth asteroid

271
00:09:53,220 --> 00:09:50,470
discovery it's a new technique it's

272
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:53,230
gonna work a thousand times faster than

273
00:09:59,970 --> 00:09:54,250
ever before

274
00:10:03,840 --> 00:09:59,980
and today's Martin have a guess how many

275
00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:03,850
of these little asteroids have found all

276
00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:08,860
found yes in our history say if they're

277
00:10:14,670 --> 00:10:11,260
very it's only like one or two percent

278
00:10:18,570 --> 00:10:14,680
of all the asteroids and the answer it's

279
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:18,580
about 10,000 and of these more than a

280
00:10:23,370 --> 00:10:20,890
thousand are bigger than a kilometer in

281
00:10:26,430 --> 00:10:23,380
size they're not the problem the problem

282
00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:26,440
are the smaller ones which probably

283
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:29,680
number in their millions it's finding

284
00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:32,170
these small ones it's very very

285
00:10:37,890 --> 00:10:34,090
difficult because they are very very

286
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:37,900
faint yeah now there's a Gary at the Jet

287
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:40,810
Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena a

288
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:42,850
stone called Michael Chou

289
00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:45,610
who've developed a brand-new way to spot

290
00:10:51,450 --> 00:10:48,310
and track these very faint fast-moving

291
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:51,460
objects which John has just been on

292
00:10:56,940 --> 00:10:53,680
about very frightening because it came

293
00:10:59,520 --> 00:10:56,950
within a fraction of the lunar distance

294
00:11:01,140 --> 00:10:59,530
from here to the moon this particular

295
00:11:03,540 --> 00:11:01,150
one that John was talking about last

296
00:11:05,310 --> 00:11:03,550
week the week before these guys say that

297
00:11:05,759 --> 00:11:05,320
their new technique could increase the

298
00:11:08,309 --> 00:11:05,769
road

299
00:11:10,139 --> 00:11:08,319
discovery by a factor of a thousand so

300
00:11:12,059 --> 00:11:10,149
hopefully fewer and fewer of these

301
00:11:15,210 --> 00:11:12,069
things will be literally coming out of

302
00:11:17,939 --> 00:11:15,220
the blue waters basically technically

303
00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:17,949
instead of taking a single 30 second

304
00:11:22,590 --> 00:11:20,470
exposure which they do now they're going

305
00:11:25,710 --> 00:11:22,600
to take lots of much shorter explorers

306
00:11:28,619 --> 00:11:25,720
and freeze the position of the

307
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:28,629
near-earth asteroid in those it'll be

308
00:11:33,419 --> 00:11:30,730
the stars that will look dim rather than

309
00:11:36,929 --> 00:11:33,429
the asteroids and the Comets synthetic

310
00:11:41,429 --> 00:11:36,939
tracking and these sequences of images

311
00:11:43,530 --> 00:11:41,439
of the particular small asteroids will

312
00:11:45,929 --> 00:11:43,540
contain about 120 pictures

313
00:11:48,869 --> 00:11:45,939
plumpie I don't very little about

314
00:11:51,689 --> 00:11:48,879
computers but to get them all morph

315
00:11:54,479 --> 00:11:51,699
together or whatever it uses quite a lot

316
00:11:58,109 --> 00:11:54,489
of computational power per said

317
00:12:00,239 --> 00:11:58,119
currently JPL say it's chicken feed for

318
00:12:02,309 --> 00:12:00,249
today's state-of-the-art computers

319
00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:02,319
they've been using it this tech make on

320
00:12:07,739 --> 00:12:04,660
the 200-inch telescope at the Palomar

321
00:12:10,109 --> 00:12:07,749
Observatory in California and by

322
00:12:12,329 --> 00:12:10,119
repeating the process later the same

323
00:12:14,309 --> 00:12:12,339
night that can get a handle on what

324
00:12:17,299 --> 00:12:14,319
you're just talking about the asteroids

325
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,309
all B's and then follow-up observations

326
00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:19,839
on nights after that should pin down

327
00:12:25,530 --> 00:12:23,350
that orbit accurately probably in the

328
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:25,540
last five years astronomers have

329
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:27,730
identified near-earth asteroids with the

330
00:12:33,389 --> 00:12:30,610
size of a few tens of meters at a rate

331
00:12:36,059 --> 00:12:33,399
of only thirty a year so you've been

332
00:12:37,499 --> 00:12:36,069
looking at 30 or 40 thousand a year so

333
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:37,509
we're gonna get a lot of them sourced

334
00:12:41,939 --> 00:12:39,490
the majority of them and the say

335
00:12:45,359 --> 00:12:41,949
apparently showing it's a man with a

336
00:12:47,669 --> 00:12:45,369
five meter telescope synthetic tracking

337
00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:47,679
should spot about 80 of these objects

338
00:12:53,579 --> 00:12:50,740
every night and NASA is actually hoping

339
00:12:56,850 --> 00:12:53,589
to use the results to send a crude

340
00:12:58,819 --> 00:12:56,860
mission to a near-earth asteroid in a

341
00:13:02,659 --> 00:12:58,829
program called the asteroid Grand

342
00:13:08,009 --> 00:13:02,669
Challenge which will in its self

343
00:13:12,419 --> 00:13:08,019
identify yet more potential targets Andy

344
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:12,429
now does this mean that b612 is no

345
00:13:16,590 --> 00:13:14,730
longer looking into launching that

346
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:16,600
telescope they're going to do you happen

347
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:18,730
to know anything about that all I know

348
00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:19,200
is

349
00:13:26,540 --> 00:13:23,070
b612 we're on target to live in the

350
00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:26,550
decade this to me is you know this is a

351
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:29,670
ground based venture which right by its

352
00:13:34,490 --> 00:13:31,890
very definition has to be a lot lot

353
00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:34,500
cheaper I mean if you can the state of

354
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:36,960
today's telescopes like the Keck here's

355
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:39,480
an adaptive optics and some of the other

356
00:13:45,650 --> 00:13:42,450
big ones you know it's getting to the

357
00:13:49,310 --> 00:13:45,660
stage where we can get things we can

358
00:13:51,140 --> 00:13:49,320
remove theoretically and practically the

359
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:51,150
Earth's atmosphere to stop that

360
00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:53,130
shimmering the glimmering of stars

361
00:13:59,090 --> 00:13:55,560
twinkle twinkle little star and we can

362
00:14:01,250 --> 00:13:59,100
start making Hubble light images from

363
00:14:03,950 --> 00:14:01,260
telescopes on the ground that's a lot

364
00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:03,960
cheaper it's got a lot less risk than

365
00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:05,550
having to launch that you know but

366
00:14:09,890 --> 00:14:07,800
putting a telescope up on the booster

367
00:14:12,850 --> 00:14:09,900
because to start with the failure at

368
00:14:15,980 --> 00:14:12,860
boosters you know you're putting a

369
00:14:19,340 --> 00:14:15,990
multi-million pound machine into orbit

370
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:19,350
you're lucky if it gets there right so

371
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:20,970
Andy thanks a lot and we'll be talking

372
00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:21,890
to you next week

373
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:25,020
lovely to talk to you guys look forward

374
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:28,050
to speaking to you next week so John we

375
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:30,210
really are like a sitting target as all

376
00:14:34,820 --> 00:14:32,850
the craters attest to that it's really

377
00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:34,830
frightening you know it's something that

378
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:37,560
I don't think about that often but is

379
00:14:42,890 --> 00:14:38,850
more and more this stuff is happening

380
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:42,900
it's I don't know I mean it seems like

381
00:14:46,990 --> 00:14:44,850
there would be better warning systems

382
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:47,000
when this comes as close in and you you

383
00:14:50,180 --> 00:14:48,570
oftentimes we're hearing about this

384
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:50,190
stuff either after the fact or what have

385
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:52,110
you it is pretty frightening you know

386
00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:54,000
I've heard you know people say look if

387
00:14:57,770 --> 00:14:56,040
we really want to survive as a society

388
00:15:00,410 --> 00:14:57,780
then we should be looking into

389
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:00,420
off-planet you know put our species out

390
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,490
on different planets just you know to

391
00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:04,560
continue you know in case something like

392
00:15:08,330 --> 00:15:06,870
this happens a major asteroid hits and

393
00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:08,340
we're all wiped out like the dinosaurs

394
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,950
yeah it kind of goes hand-in-hand with a

395
00:15:13,850 --> 00:15:12,240
lot of the folks that are doing what

396
00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:13,860
they call doomsday prepping you know

397
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:15,000
they're they're doing they're planning

398
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:18,480
for catastrophes and and and things that

399
00:15:22,910 --> 00:15:21,210
we can't control so yeah it does kind of

400
00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:22,920
you know there's something to be said

401
00:15:26,510 --> 00:15:24,990
for that well I think well all we have

402
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:26,520
to do is really hitch a ride on a UFO

403
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:28,290
and see where they're going see where

404
00:15:30,770 --> 00:15:28,980
they came from

405
00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:30,780
hey so thanks so much John and we'll be

406
00:15:33,020 --> 00:15:32,550
talking to you next week sounds great

407
00:15:33,890 --> 00:15:33,030
I'm mark

408
00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:33,900
looking forward to it thank you for

409
00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:36,870
having me and we have Ryan Moll a heat

410
00:16:48,580 --> 00:15:39,270
coming right up after the music break

411
00:16:53,270 --> 00:16:51,260
well this is always one of those fears

412
00:16:56,330 --> 00:16:53,280
that you know can happen when you're

413
00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:56,340
doing live radio and Orion if you happen

414
00:17:02,620 --> 00:16:58,890
to be listening you should be calling in

415
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:02,630
he was supposed to call promptly at 816

416
00:17:09,559 --> 00:17:06,890
its 817 so here I am all alone here and

417
00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:09,569
waiting for Ryan to call which should be

418
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:12,540
any moment right now and so we have a

419
00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:15,089
lot of people on the message board and I

420
00:17:20,179 --> 00:17:17,339
encourage you to go on the message board

421
00:17:21,949 --> 00:17:20,189
right now and that's at podcast UFO comm

422
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:21,959
and why don't you throw me a question

423
00:17:26,030 --> 00:17:24,120
why don't you do that so I can at least

424
00:17:28,570 --> 00:17:26,040
talk to out there right now tonight

425
00:17:31,940 --> 00:17:28,580
we're going to be talking about the

426
00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:31,950
Exeter incident here is Ryan now Saved

427
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:33,990
by the Bell and here he is

428
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:37,890
Ryan maluhia how are you I'm good good

429
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:39,690
we were you know I was a little worried

430
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:41,730
about you here cuz you know the music

431
00:17:46,190 --> 00:17:43,650
ended and there was no Ryan on board oh

432
00:17:48,290 --> 00:17:46,200
I'm sorry actually I did must have been

433
00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:48,300
a delay on my computer I apologize oh

434
00:17:54,170 --> 00:17:52,350
you know that they could be can you get

435
00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:54,180
a little closer to the phone please just

436
00:17:59,650 --> 00:17:56,520
we're here you know from the producer

437
00:18:01,550 --> 00:17:59,660
that you're not not quite loud enough

438
00:18:05,060 --> 00:18:01,560
yeah that sounds good

439
00:18:07,820 --> 00:18:05,070
that sounds good alright so Ryan before

440
00:18:10,910 --> 00:18:07,830
we get talking about today's you know

441
00:18:13,370 --> 00:18:10,920
topic incident Exeter Exeter incident

442
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:13,380
whatever it's called back in 1965 can

443
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:14,640
you give the listener a little

444
00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:16,410
background first of all I want to say if

445
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:18,600
you're listening live please jump over

446
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:21,810
to podcast UFO comm and get on the

447
00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:23,730
message board and fire some questions

448
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,510
away and so I'd like to know how you got

449
00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:29,760
involved you're kind of a young guy or

450
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:31,230
you appear to be how did you get

451
00:18:38,090 --> 00:18:34,650
involved in the UFO phenomena and the in

452
00:18:40,460 --> 00:18:38,100
the beginning actually you know I got an

453
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:40,470
interest my whole life you know growing

454
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:42,690
up you know kind of a passing interest

455
00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:48,330
and in the winter in 1998-99 I had a UFO

456
00:18:52,250 --> 00:18:49,830
sighting in New Hampshire with two

457
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:52,260
acquaintances that you know was pretty

458
00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:54,130
compelling and you know got me

459
00:18:58,860 --> 00:18:56,230
the subject so that was you know really

460
00:19:02,160 --> 00:18:58,870
the catalyst for me starting to you know

461
00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:02,170
research UFOs in New England and

462
00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:03,820
specifically New Hampshire so that

463
00:19:08,340 --> 00:19:05,800
that's how I got started I see now did

464
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:08,350
your friends actually also get kind of

465
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:10,210
involved in looking into the subject

466
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:13,570
actually they didn't they you know they

467
00:19:17,850 --> 00:19:15,610
were acquaintances they weren't ultra

468
00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:17,860
close friends of mine and you know it's

469
00:19:22,260 --> 00:19:19,990
something that I've you know followed up

470
00:19:23,910 --> 00:19:22,270
with them over the years but they didn't

471
00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:23,920
kind of have the same reaction as me

472
00:19:27,390 --> 00:19:25,150
uh-huh

473
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:27,400
now can you just give a real quick

474
00:19:34,170 --> 00:19:30,640
description and of the sighting sure of

475
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:34,180
my sighting yeah sure we were traveling

476
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:37,210
on route 13 returning from a trip to New

477
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:40,650
Hampshire returning to Massachusetts and

478
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:44,410
basically driving it was late winter it

479
00:19:49,710 --> 00:19:47,170
was you know still laid out but it was

480
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:49,720
just starting to start getting dark but

481
00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:51,250
the Sun was still out and basically we

482
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:54,340
were driving down Route 113 sorry route

483
00:20:00,330 --> 00:19:57,250
13 and we basically saw an object in the

484
00:20:02,910 --> 00:20:00,340
sky not too far off of the road above

485
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:02,920
the treeline which appeared to go down

486
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:06,490
into the woods it was a you know very

487
00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:09,520
odd looking object pretty hard to

488
00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:12,520
describe and it was just very quick we

489
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:14,470
saw it go straight down into woods there

490
00:20:19,710 --> 00:20:17,370
was no sound and that was basically it

491
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,720
yeah you know the the one thing that

492
00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:22,480
really threw me when I had my sighting

493
00:20:27,630 --> 00:20:25,780
back in 2006 was the fact that what I

494
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:27,640
saw had no sound and it was like it just

495
00:20:33,180 --> 00:20:29,890
didn't make any sense you know yeah I

496
00:20:35,850 --> 00:20:33,190
think that's the one thing that until if

497
00:20:38,250 --> 00:20:35,860
you're not into UFOs and you don't hear

498
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:38,260
other people say that you have no idea

499
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:39,850
that that's what's going to happen and

500
00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:42,930
it really takes you back you know

501
00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:45,550
you know in ours it was daytime too

502
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:48,760
which you know having it be still light

503
00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:51,130
out you know and seeing what we saw you

504
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:53,590
know it was it just you know we we

505
00:20:57,090 --> 00:20:55,090
didn't have the you know the shade of

506
00:20:59,730 --> 00:20:57,100
night the kind of you know and the thing

507
00:21:01,890 --> 00:20:59,740
we saw was in fairly close proximity it

508
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,900
wasn't often the distance in the sky so

509
00:21:06,570 --> 00:21:03,280
it was you know it's pretty compelling

510
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:06,580
now before we get into incident Exeter

511
00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:07,510
which

512
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:10,270
saying we're gonna do um I went jumped

513
00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:12,640
on your blog which is New Hampshire UFO

514
00:21:22,020 --> 00:21:17,590
research I believe it is and interesting

515
00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:22,030
and I saw the the photo that you know

516
00:21:27,450 --> 00:21:24,340
I'm in the antiques and Fine Arts and

517
00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:27,460
all that you know for it's a passion of

518
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:29,920
mine and all that and I really was

519
00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:32,610
intrigued by this cigar-shaped photo

520
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:36,790
stereopticon view card that was I think

521
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:40,000
in the 1870s and when I first saw that I

522
00:21:43,740 --> 00:21:42,190
go oh my well that's an early photo and

523
00:21:46,170 --> 00:21:43,750
you know I wondered all about that now

524
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:46,180
can you you crack that that was uh it

525
00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:49,090
was not a hoax but it was it was not in

526
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:52,020
the sky it was actually on a frozen

527
00:21:58,380 --> 00:21:55,330
mountain or something was in Washington

528
00:22:02,820 --> 00:21:58,390
it wasn't my Washington yeah so that

529
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:02,830
case basically what it is is in 2002 a

530
00:22:07,620 --> 00:22:05,530
photo was purchased from eBay by a

531
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:07,630
gentleman called me and Samuel Sherman

532
00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:10,210
who purchased the photo in question from

533
00:22:14,550 --> 00:22:11,920
eBay

534
00:22:17,370 --> 00:22:14,560
you know alleged that it was a UFO photo

535
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:17,380
you know did a couple interviews or

536
00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:19,150
there was a few articles about it and

537
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:21,070
you know just having to be in New

538
00:22:26,370 --> 00:22:21,490
Hampshire

539
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:26,380
was always intrigued by it so initially

540
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:28,810
the only version of the photo that was

541
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:31,930
available was a highly cropped low res

542
00:22:37,710 --> 00:22:35,650
version of the photo so all you could

543
00:22:39,930 --> 00:22:37,720
really see is some white swirling in the

544
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:39,940
background and then this cigar C shaped

545
00:22:45,570 --> 00:22:43,090
object so that was really in 2002 that

546
00:22:49,230 --> 00:22:45,580
was about all the information you know

547
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:49,240
that was available but you know it was

548
00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:51,520
something I went to back to from time to

549
00:22:55,710 --> 00:22:52,840
time and there's a number of other

550
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:55,720
people who have done articles and

551
00:22:58,770 --> 00:22:57,010
written about it and you know I

552
00:23:00,960 --> 00:22:58,780
reference some of those people in my

553
00:23:02,430 --> 00:23:00,970
article because you know if you know I

554
00:23:03,780 --> 00:23:02,440
don't want to take all the credit for it

555
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:03,790
there's a bunch of different people that

556
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:07,770
have looked into it and you know I

557
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:10,000
basically just kept at it but what I

558
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:12,640
discovered in 2008 was that the New York

559
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:15,970
Public Library had the full set of these

560
00:23:21,210 --> 00:23:19,090
photos and what had happened was in 1870

561
00:23:24,690 --> 00:23:21,220
there was an expedition to the top of

562
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:24,700
Washington by the Army Signal Corps and

563
00:23:30,029 --> 00:23:28,150
some scientists and they took two

564
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:30,039
photographers up to the top of them to

565
00:23:36,510 --> 00:23:33,730
document it and they took a 41 photo

566
00:23:38,510 --> 00:23:36,520
picture set which is where this you know

567
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:38,520
picture in question came from and so

568
00:23:43,529 --> 00:23:41,530
once I located the actual set of photos

569
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:43,539
and looked at the photo that had been

570
00:23:47,549 --> 00:23:45,010
knocked cropped and that was in full

571
00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:47,559
resolution it's very clear that it's an

572
00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:49,780
object that's in a pile of snow on the

573
00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:52,390
surface of the mountain and not an

574
00:23:57,899 --> 00:23:55,140
object in the clouds as it was alleged

575
00:23:59,700 --> 00:23:57,909
right and you can't really see that

576
00:24:03,570 --> 00:23:59,710
right off the bat I mean that's that's

577
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:03,580
pretty tricky so getting back to Exeter

578
00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:06,010
incident I I grew up oh I don't know

579
00:24:12,570 --> 00:24:09,340
maybe ten miles away or 15 miles away

580
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:12,580
from Exeter and right right not too far

581
00:24:17,490 --> 00:24:14,890
away from Portsmouth New Hampshire and I

582
00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:17,500
vaguely remember hearing about this

583
00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:20,350
cause I was very young but back at that

584
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:23,320
time back in 1965 I mean I was really

585
00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:25,870
young but back in that time there was a

586
00:24:30,510 --> 00:24:27,780
lot going on in that whole area

587
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:30,520
everybody was looking for UFOs everybody

588
00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:31,690
was talking about him

589
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:34,900
and you heard about Betty and Barney

590
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:37,809
Hill of course and so there was a lot

591
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:40,690
lot going on so why don't you for the

592
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:43,450
person that's never heard about incident

593
00:24:46,890 --> 00:24:45,490
Exeter why don't you just start from the

594
00:24:51,630 --> 00:24:46,900
beginning and tell the whole story

595
00:24:54,270 --> 00:24:51,640
sure so it was September 3rd 1965 and

596
00:24:56,730 --> 00:24:54,280
Norman muscarello who was an 18 year old

597
00:25:00,690 --> 00:24:56,740
young man was hit by hitchhiking back

598
00:25:05,580 --> 00:25:00,700
from Amesbury Massachusetts on route 150

599
00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:05,590
to Exeter where he lived at some point

600
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:07,390
in his journey he was hitchhiking pretty

601
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:09,850
late at night so at one point he got to

602
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:12,130
the town called Kensington which

603
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,049
actually the UFO incident actually

604
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:16,960
happened in Kensington but because it

605
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:19,150
was so close to Exeter they call it the

606
00:25:23,399 --> 00:25:20,650
incident and Exeter but it actually took

607
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:23,409
place in Kensington so as Norman was

608
00:25:30,210 --> 00:25:25,809
hiking home and he was walking by a farm

609
00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:30,220
a red glowing object appeared over the

610
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:32,289
farm and started swooping down at him

611
00:25:37,470 --> 00:25:34,990
and he became frightened Oh

612
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:37,480
and douve next to a wall to you know

613
00:25:42,510 --> 00:25:40,450
shield himself and then tried to bang on

614
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:42,520
the door of the farmhouse the people

615
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:43,929
wouldn't let him in because he was very

616
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:47,650
frantic and so he was able to then flag

617
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:49,809
a car down and have them bring him

618
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:54,130
directly to Exeter police station now at

619
00:26:00,060 --> 00:25:57,760
just about the same time officer Eugene

620
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:00,070
Bertrand was on patrol and he came upon

621
00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:04,330
a car on route 101 that had two women in

622
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:06,190
it that were very frightened and that

623
00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:07,929
claimed that a red object had been

624
00:26:12,570 --> 00:26:11,320
swooping down at their car so you know

625
00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:12,580
Norman showed up at the police station

626
00:26:18,690 --> 00:26:16,270
and told scratch : who was the dispatch

627
00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:18,700
his story and then all of a sudden

628
00:26:23,510 --> 00:26:21,070
Eugene Bertrand is calling in you know

629
00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:23,520
with this story about the lady so

630
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:25,750
because of those reasons I think you

631
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:27,490
know the cops were you know they gave

632
00:26:31,650 --> 00:26:29,290
they gave it a bit of credence and they

633
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:31,660
knew Norman and he was kind of known as

634
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:33,370
a tough no-nonsense kid and he was

635
00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:36,880
pretty shaken up so officer Bertrand

636
00:26:41,970 --> 00:26:38,980
returned to the police station retrieved

637
00:26:44,850 --> 00:26:41,980
Norman they both went back out to the

638
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:44,860
field where Norman had his sighting and

639
00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:46,990
when they got there they went out into

640
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:48,760
the middle of field and sure enough the

641
00:26:54,210 --> 00:26:51,250
UFO came up over the trees and was right

642
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:54,220
over Norman and officer Bertrand right

643
00:26:58,740 --> 00:26:57,130
in the field now officer Bertrand was so

644
00:27:02,520 --> 00:26:58,750
frightened that he dropped it was me and

645
00:27:05,310 --> 00:27:02,530
pulled his gun and but then you know was

646
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:05,320
worried about radiation because in both

647
00:27:09,810 --> 00:27:07,570
the case when the UFO showed up first

648
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:09,820
for Norman at the farm and when he went

649
00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:12,610
back with officer Bertrand the whole

650
00:27:18,180 --> 00:27:14,830
field turned red and there was an animal

651
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:18,190
reaction from the animals of the farm so

652
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:20,890
officer Bertrand grabbed Norman brought

653
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:23,440
him back up to the cruiser he called in

654
00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:26,080
saying he saw the UFO as well and

655
00:27:31,860 --> 00:27:28,809
officer David hunt was already and route

656
00:27:33,299 --> 00:27:31,870
to the scene he showed up and then for

657
00:27:35,549 --> 00:27:33,309
the next eight or nine minutes

658
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:35,559
officer hunt and Bertrand stood there

659
00:27:41,790 --> 00:27:37,570
you know going through every possible

660
00:27:43,470 --> 00:27:41,800
thing that it could be you know and just

661
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:43,480
not being able to come with any

662
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:45,130
conventional explanation for what they

663
00:27:51,410 --> 00:27:47,010
were seeing so

664
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:51,420
that that's the thumbnail on it now

665
00:27:57,470 --> 00:27:53,930
there were other there were other

666
00:28:00,110 --> 00:27:57,480
sightings as well in the area during

667
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,120
this week uh well there was there was a

668
00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:02,880
good amount of sightings leading up to

669
00:28:09,290 --> 00:28:06,120
it and then also that night there was

670
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:09,300
also another report because when they

671
00:28:14,270 --> 00:28:12,330
finally returned after the officer

672
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:14,280
Bertrand in Norman having the sighting

673
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:15,450
when they returned to the police station

674
00:28:21,050 --> 00:28:17,490
they actually had a call patch through

675
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:21,060
from I believe it was the local operator

676
00:28:25,730 --> 00:28:23,910
that a frantic man called from Hampton

677
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:25,740
saying that there was some sort of UFO

678
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:28,770
over his car and the officers actually

679
00:28:32,810 --> 00:28:30,510
went as far as to go to the hospital

680
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:32,820
either late that night of the next day

681
00:28:38,180 --> 00:28:35,400
to see if you know possibly anybody

682
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:38,190
there you know had been hurt or you know

683
00:28:43,310 --> 00:28:39,840
had been admitted for anything like that

684
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:43,320
so you know if if we count all those

685
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:45,360
that's about five or six people within a

686
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:47,490
you know a few hours time that night and

687
00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:50,700
there also had been you know a good

688
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:52,710
amount of sightings at Pease also by the

689
00:28:58,340 --> 00:28:55,440
Coast Guard in that area right where I

690
00:29:01,040 --> 00:28:58,350
lived I could actually see the landing

691
00:29:02,930 --> 00:29:01,050
strip at Pease so it was always there

692
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:02,940
was always a and I was across the river

693
00:29:08,030 --> 00:29:06,510
and actually main but up on a hill we

694
00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:08,040
had a house up on a hill and could see

695
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:10,260
right over there and we were always

696
00:29:13,580 --> 00:29:11,490
looking over there to see if we could

697
00:29:15,710 --> 00:29:13,590
see any UFOs because there was always

698
00:29:18,980 --> 00:29:15,720
stories about them over there yeah

699
00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:18,990
Norman must Guerrero Mescalero or have

700
00:29:25,540 --> 00:29:22,980
you see his name is he is he still with

701
00:29:28,370 --> 00:29:25,550
us and does he does he talk about this

702
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:28,380
unfortunately Norman passed away I

703
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:33,090
believe it was either 2003 or 2005 he

704
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:36,570
passed away so he's no longer with us

705
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:40,410
but his brother is still lives in Exeter

706
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:43,530
and you know I've met him before he's a

707
00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:45,170
very nice guy and you know he's still

708
00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:47,940
you know we'll talk about it because he

709
00:29:52,340 --> 00:29:49,950
was you know a younger kid at the time

710
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:52,350
and you know he has pretty vivid

711
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:55,200
memories of the aftermath you know of of

712
00:29:59,780 --> 00:29:57,210
everything with the press and the

713
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:59,790
military coming and you know talking to

714
00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:00,720
Norman

715
00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:03,960
mother so Sofia's still around and I

716
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:07,980
believe that as far as the officers I

717
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:11,330
believe that they have both passed away

718
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:15,090
now I remember hearing a when I heard

719
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:17,520
about the story was long before I

720
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:19,530
actually ever really got really

721
00:30:23,419 --> 00:30:21,570
interested in UFOs after I had my

722
00:30:26,029 --> 00:30:23,429
sighting so I would say that it was

723
00:30:28,580 --> 00:30:26,039
sometime in high school I either read

724
00:30:31,070 --> 00:30:28,590
something but I remember hearing that

725
00:30:32,899 --> 00:30:31,080
Norman when he went to the police

726
00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:32,909
station they just plain-old didn't

727
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:36,480
believe him at all and but they saw how

728
00:30:40,970 --> 00:30:39,570
panicked he was and he just wouldn't let

729
00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:40,980
go of it and that's when they finally

730
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:42,600
you know took some action and and

731
00:30:48,860 --> 00:30:45,840
actually you know investigated a little

732
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:48,870
bit yeah I think it was a combination of

733
00:30:53,630 --> 00:30:51,720
you know them knowing him as a tough

734
00:30:55,820 --> 00:30:53,640
young guy being so scared and then the

735
00:30:58,669 --> 00:30:55,830
fact that you know this completely

736
00:31:00,799 --> 00:30:58,679
independent report from these two ladies

737
00:31:03,049 --> 00:31:00,809
that officer Bertrand you know the

738
00:31:06,289 --> 00:31:03,059
description fit what Norman had

739
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:06,299
described so I'm not sure as to how much

740
00:31:09,409 --> 00:31:07,919
they believed them or didn't believe him

741
00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:09,419
at the time I'm sure that they were

742
00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:11,220
probably very skeptical of it but I

743
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:12,840
think it was because of those two

744
00:31:17,090 --> 00:31:14,880
reasons that they followed up on it

745
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:17,100
you know you always hear when there's

746
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:19,289
any type of major internet okay if it's

747
00:31:23,810 --> 00:31:21,840
Roswell or real know some forest or

748
00:31:26,659 --> 00:31:23,820
anything like that you always hear the

749
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:26,669
skeptics you know their trial on

750
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:29,370
debunking whatever incident it is in

751
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:33,049
this one oh my god - when you read The

752
00:31:39,380 --> 00:31:37,049
Skeptical Inquirer explanation when they

753
00:31:43,310 --> 00:31:39,390
say that it was a refueling of a tanker

754
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:43,320
and that it had lights like that and

755
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:45,809
that's that's he the blunt explanation

756
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:48,210
of what they were seeing and then you

757
00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:50,010
hear about the whole story of it and it

758
00:31:52,669 --> 00:31:51,809
doesn't add up at all it doesn't even

759
00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:52,679
come close

760
00:31:58,760 --> 00:31:55,710
I'm glad you brought that up yes you

761
00:32:01,460 --> 00:31:58,770
know I'm familiar with that article and

762
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:01,470
you know it's it's very troubling

763
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:05,610
because you know I've read the article

764
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:07,919
and Joe Nickell and James and the guy

765
00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:11,010
believe wrote it and you know it's just

766
00:32:14,090 --> 00:32:13,230
very clear just having studied this case

767
00:32:17,299 --> 00:32:14,100
for Olmos

768
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:17,309
fifteen years now when you read you know

769
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:19,289
their explanation of the case there's

770
00:32:23,539 --> 00:32:21,419
just there's so many holes and that

771
00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:23,549
there's so many things that don't jive

772
00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:25,500
with the documented facts of the case

773
00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:28,830
that you know it is it's very troubling

774
00:32:33,620 --> 00:32:30,750
and you know the first thing that we

775
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:33,630
have to consider is that Eugene Bertrand

776
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:36,720
the officer he was a veteran of the

777
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:39,570
Korean War he had four years refuelling

778
00:32:46,460 --> 00:32:43,770
experience with kc-97 refueling planes

779
00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:46,470
which is what the skeptical inquirer

780
00:32:53,810 --> 00:32:49,500
tried to claim that the officers at

781
00:32:55,789 --> 00:32:53,820
norman you know saw David Hunt was in

782
00:32:58,820 --> 00:32:55,799
the Army Reserve for four years he spent

783
00:33:00,409 --> 00:32:58,830
31 years in law enforcement well after

784
00:33:05,149 --> 00:33:00,419
you know the incident these guys were

785
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,159
both very intelligent veterans who you

786
00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:07,440
know patrolled that area every night and

787
00:33:11,539 --> 00:33:09,929
we're very familiar with the you know

788
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:11,549
the planes from Pease and all these

789
00:33:18,110 --> 00:33:14,370
different things so for the skeptical

790
00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:18,120
inquirer to suggest that these two

791
00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:21,809
gentleman's and norman who said in plain

792
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:23,220
english they saw something about a

793
00:33:29,149 --> 00:33:26,250
hundred feet over them that just doesn't

794
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,159
reconcile and then you know in doing

795
00:33:34,450 --> 00:33:31,200
some research into that i did a lot of

796
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:34,460
research into kc-97 refueling jets and

797
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:37,440
they can't you know after talking with a

798
00:33:41,779 --> 00:33:39,450
few people that have experienced

799
00:33:44,659 --> 00:33:41,789
refueling they can't refuel at anything

800
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:44,669
less than 5,000 feet especially over a

801
00:33:50,390 --> 00:33:47,730
you know a you know apartment resident

802
00:33:52,970 --> 00:33:50,400
population so you know i think if you

803
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:52,980
weigh the the credibility and experience

804
00:33:57,890 --> 00:33:55,919
with aviation of you know officer

805
00:34:00,620 --> 00:33:57,900
bertrand and then you also take into

806
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:00,630
account that you know these planes can't

807
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:02,850
be refueling at less than $5 feet I

808
00:34:08,060 --> 00:34:04,530
think that you know it busts the whole

809
00:34:11,149 --> 00:34:08,070
wide open in what they've suggested and

810
00:34:14,419 --> 00:34:11,159
just to add to that you know when the

811
00:34:16,340 --> 00:34:14,429
incident initially happened the Pentagon

812
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:16,350
threw everything they could at it it was

813
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:18,480
stars it was planets it was weather

814
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:21,359
inversions it was the light from Pete

815
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:23,970
lights from Pease it was a banner plane

816
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:27,450
and Raymond Fowler who did the initial

817
00:34:34,220 --> 00:34:31,440
investigation that John G Fuller's book

818
00:34:37,399 --> 00:34:34,230
was based on incident Exeter Raymond did

819
00:34:39,710 --> 00:34:37,409
all the investigation on it and he you

820
00:34:41,619 --> 00:34:39,720
know was very diligent anytime they

821
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:41,629
would offer up you know an explanation

822
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:43,770
he checked with the banner playing

823
00:34:48,409 --> 00:34:45,839
company he proved that that wasn't true

824
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:48,419
you know Raymond Fowler really you know

825
00:34:53,869 --> 00:34:51,089
kept on the Pentagon and Project Blue

826
00:34:55,940 --> 00:34:53,879
Book and anytime they offered up these

827
00:34:59,900 --> 00:34:55,950
explanations you know he tend to shot

828
00:35:01,940 --> 00:34:59,910
them down and then you know there was

829
00:35:04,460 --> 00:35:01,950
talk of it being this refueling mission

830
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:04,470
operation big blast cocoa but then that

831
00:35:10,940 --> 00:35:07,890
was also proven to be over at 12:35

832
00:35:12,980 --> 00:35:10,950
which would be a full hour before Norman

833
00:35:16,220 --> 00:35:12,990
I'm sorry 1:35 which would have been a

834
00:35:18,829 --> 00:35:16,230
full hour before Norman in officer

835
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:18,839
Bertrand fighting so I think for those

836
00:35:22,670 --> 00:35:20,609
reasons that I've listed you know I

837
00:35:25,460 --> 00:35:22,680
don't think that the skeptical inquirer

838
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:25,470
errs explanation you know it's it's

839
00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:28,890
reaching as far as my opinion well at

840
00:35:34,490 --> 00:35:33,180
least I didn't say swamp gas right we

841
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:34,500
have a couple of questions on the

842
00:35:39,230 --> 00:35:37,680
message board Tony as asking in a

843
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:39,240
general way was there any hard evidence

844
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:42,000
collected from the woods or did anyone

845
00:35:47,450 --> 00:35:44,310
try to actually well that's a great

846
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:47,460
question actually you know there's there

847
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:50,310
was a lot of talk of possible physical

848
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:53,970
evidence because as you remember you

849
00:35:57,980 --> 00:35:55,410
know this thing happened over the field

850
00:36:00,620 --> 00:35:57,990
next to the farm now I haven't been able

851
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:00,630
to get any hard documents proving this

852
00:36:05,390 --> 00:36:03,839
but this is you know this is discussion

853
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:05,400
that's you know been included and

854
00:36:11,540 --> 00:36:07,859
reports that the military was very

855
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:11,550
interested in any reaction by the

856
00:36:16,940 --> 00:36:14,880
animals after the facts and there was

857
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:16,950
talk that they were down there you know

858
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:20,730
taking a look at the field so there was

859
00:36:26,750 --> 00:36:23,760
talk of you know an examination in the

860
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:26,760
area and enquiries but there was never

861
00:36:33,470 --> 00:36:31,050
any you know any evidence spoken of if

862
00:36:36,140 --> 00:36:33,480
they did collect it in the public or

863
00:36:39,770 --> 00:36:36,150
anything in the Declassified Blue Book

864
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,780
files so but it's they seemed it seems

865
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,280
like you know the military

866
00:36:46,220 --> 00:36:43,920
was interested in that possibility yeah

867
00:36:48,620 --> 00:36:46,230
now I know the the Air Force actually

868
00:36:51,650 --> 00:36:48,630
they couldn't come up with a explanation

869
00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:51,660
if I'm if I remember right yeah well

870
00:36:57,170 --> 00:36:54,180
initially they tried to it was it was

871
00:37:00,380 --> 00:36:57,180
interesting because they offered an

872
00:37:02,330 --> 00:37:00,390
answer to what it was before they even

873
00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:02,340
had finished their investigation which

874
00:37:08,990 --> 00:37:04,700
Raymond Fowler called them out on and

875
00:37:11,420 --> 00:37:09,000
also the two officers sent two fairly

876
00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:11,430
angry letters to to blue book saying

877
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:14,460
look you know we know what we saw were

878
00:37:17,570 --> 00:37:16,320
you know intelligent people and we're

879
00:37:19,460 --> 00:37:17,580
getting you know we're getting a lot of

880
00:37:22,970 --> 00:37:19,470
harassment because people are you know

881
00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:22,980
making light of what we saw so initially

882
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:25,020
they tried to explain it but what ended

883
00:37:32,450 --> 00:37:28,170
up happening was Exeter because of all

884
00:37:34,330 --> 00:37:32,460
these sightings in 1965 and 66 Gerald

885
00:37:36,260 --> 00:37:34,340
Ford actually called one of the

886
00:37:38,180 --> 00:37:36,270
congressional only I believe there's

887
00:37:43,550 --> 00:37:38,190
only two congressional hearings on UFOs

888
00:37:46,220 --> 00:37:43,560
in 1966 and the Exeter case was one of

889
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:46,230
the highlighted cases and J Allen Hynek

890
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:48,540
had to admit under oath right right

891
00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:51,480
during the congressional hearing that it

892
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:53,400
wasn't unknown and that even though they

893
00:37:57,710 --> 00:37:55,140
had tried to prescribe some of these

894
00:38:00,560 --> 00:37:57,720
other explanations that ultimately it

895
00:38:02,150 --> 00:38:00,570
was still an unknown case I see now I'm

896
00:38:03,950 --> 00:38:02,160
going to combine two questions on the

897
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:03,960
message board and by the way if you're

898
00:38:10,580 --> 00:38:08,010
listening on dark matter radio network

899
00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:10,590
you can jump over to podcast UFO comm

900
00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:13,140
and join the message board if you'd like

901
00:38:19,550 --> 00:38:16,460
to throw a couple of questions that Ryan

902
00:38:21,230 --> 00:38:19,560
let's see Eric is asking or stating here

903
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:21,240
New England has some great historic

904
00:38:26,090 --> 00:38:23,310
sightings but what about sightings

905
00:38:28,850 --> 00:38:26,100
recently and with that I'm going to add

906
00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:28,860
another question on the bottom if this

907
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:31,260
is a guest unknown guest that has is

908
00:38:34,850 --> 00:38:32,610
asking have there been any more

909
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:34,860
sightings since and I'm assuming he

910
00:38:42,350 --> 00:38:39,810
means in the Exeter area okay its first

911
00:38:44,060 --> 00:38:42,360
as far as more recent sightings you know

912
00:38:45,980 --> 00:38:44,070
there's definitely there's you know

913
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:45,990
always a good amount of sightings up

914
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:49,410
here you know I do follow those you know

915
00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:54,170
fairly closely as far as anything

916
00:39:01,849 --> 00:38:55,950
significant

917
00:39:04,970 --> 00:39:01,859
happened in New Hampshire as far as UFOs

918
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:04,980
was probably back in about 2008 I

919
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:08,970
believe where there was a gentleman that

920
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:11,609
claimed to have seen a large mothership

921
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:13,890
type UFO when he was out mowing his lawn

922
00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:17,760
during the day and his his report was

923
00:39:21,859 --> 00:39:19,470
given a bit of credence because

924
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:21,869
apparently he had a former aviation

925
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:24,690
military background and you know I guess

926
00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:26,640
he was vetted by the national UFO

927
00:39:30,859 --> 00:39:28,920
Reporting Center or they you know they

928
00:39:32,990 --> 00:39:30,869
didn't reveal who he was at the time but

929
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,000
there was a number of articles about

930
00:39:37,580 --> 00:39:35,520
that and there was also I believe there

931
00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:37,590
was a second sighting within that little

932
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:40,140
gap so that that's probably as far as 10

933
00:39:46,250 --> 00:39:42,930
to bigger stuff but there's definitely

934
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:46,260
you know sightings all the time and I'm

935
00:39:49,820 --> 00:39:47,520
sorry what was the second question

936
00:39:52,970 --> 00:39:49,830
basically has there been any sightings

937
00:39:58,130 --> 00:39:52,980
in Exeter itself okay yes I mean that

938
00:40:00,440 --> 00:39:58,140
area has remained an area where things

939
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:00,450
have been reported over the years you

940
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:02,970
know even up until you know current

941
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:05,520
times I'm just you know within that

942
00:40:13,790 --> 00:40:08,690
there was a lot within that cluster of

943
00:40:15,830 --> 00:40:13,800
6566 in the Exeter area but I mean there

944
00:40:18,290 --> 00:40:15,840
have been even some you know as recent

945
00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:18,300
as this year or 2013 you know from

946
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:21,540
Exeter in the Kensington area so you

947
00:40:27,050 --> 00:40:24,480
know it seems that before and both after

948
00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:27,060
you know that area seems to be one of

949
00:40:31,070 --> 00:40:28,470
New Hampshire's spots where there's been

950
00:40:32,330 --> 00:40:31,080
a lot of stuff sighted yeah well I don't

951
00:40:33,230 --> 00:40:32,340
want to beat a dead horse but I want to

952
00:40:35,770 --> 00:40:33,240
bring something up when we're talking

953
00:40:38,060 --> 00:40:35,780
about something recent and that is some

954
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:38,070
this is when I say I don't want to beat

955
00:40:41,570 --> 00:40:39,510
a dead horse for people that listen to

956
00:40:46,099 --> 00:40:41,580
the show regularly but I was actually

957
00:40:49,340 --> 00:40:46,109
really in my studio in Maine doing this

958
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:49,350
show live when in my backyard a neighbor

959
00:40:55,580 --> 00:40:53,130
saw a large triangle and tried to knock

960
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:55,590
on my door right during the show oh wow

961
00:41:00,140 --> 00:40:58,650
I should know that and I spoke to her

962
00:41:03,770 --> 00:41:00,150
since and you know she doesn't really

963
00:41:05,270 --> 00:41:03,780
want to talk about it now yeah but there

964
00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:05,280
there I think there is a lot in New

965
00:41:09,530 --> 00:41:07,740
England going on and you know there's

966
00:41:10,940 --> 00:41:09,540
I've been out on that very

967
00:41:14,060 --> 00:41:10,950
same Golf Course which is behind my

968
00:41:17,870 --> 00:41:14,070
house and you know I think I saw the

969
00:41:20,090 --> 00:41:17,880
International Space Station I don't know

970
00:41:21,590 --> 00:41:20,100
what it was but it was it was big but

971
00:41:25,100 --> 00:41:21,600
you know it just seems like there's

972
00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:25,110
there's you know big open skies there's

973
00:41:28,580 --> 00:41:26,310
not you can get away from light

974
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:28,590
pollution fairly easy so you can

975
00:41:32,290 --> 00:41:30,510
actually you know see a lot of a lot of

976
00:41:35,150 --> 00:41:32,300
it if anything's going on you can see it

977
00:41:37,070 --> 00:41:35,160
definitely you know there's you know New

978
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:37,080
Hampshire that night you can see the

979
00:41:42,020 --> 00:41:38,910
Stars very good you know depending where

980
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:42,030
you are and you know you know as far as

981
00:41:46,940 --> 00:41:44,310
the White Mountains you know that area

982
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:46,950
you know the unique thing about that and

983
00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:48,450
other mountainous areas in New Hampshire

984
00:41:54,350 --> 00:41:51,720
is you know you have a situation where

985
00:41:58,190 --> 00:41:54,360
you know you're in kind of valleys

986
00:42:00,650 --> 00:41:58,200
between these mountains so you know that

987
00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:00,660
that's interesting too you know with the

988
00:42:04,340 --> 00:42:03,150
Betty and Barney Hill case you know when

989
00:42:05,990 --> 00:42:04,350
they were having the sighting of this

990
00:42:07,460 --> 00:42:06,000
object that you know a person was up in

991
00:42:09,370 --> 00:42:07,470
the sky and then it was kind of coming

992
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:09,380
down in between the mountains you know

993
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:11,730
so yeah definitely

994
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:16,050
right now let's see Peter Davenport was

995
00:42:21,350 --> 00:42:18,960
on this case pretty strongly and I think

996
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:21,360
Jerome Clark might have researched it a

997
00:42:27,980 --> 00:42:24,210
bit what Peggy wanted to know why does

998
00:42:30,140 --> 00:42:27,990
this case and interest you um well I

999
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:30,150
mean the case interested me first and

1000
00:42:35,210 --> 00:42:32,730
foremost because you know after I had my

1001
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:35,220
sighting when I started looking into you

1002
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:37,500
know New England cases there were some

1003
00:42:41,930 --> 00:42:39,810
similarities in the characteristics that

1004
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:41,940
the UFO exhibited that were similar to

1005
00:42:48,380 --> 00:42:45,510
what I saw so I think because it was a

1006
00:42:52,610 --> 00:42:48,390
New Hampshire case there were some

1007
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:52,620
similarities to what I saw you know that

1008
00:42:56,990 --> 00:42:54,240
was what brought my interest but I think

1009
00:43:00,260 --> 00:42:57,000
you know the Exeter case is a you know a

1010
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:00,270
very important case because you know

1011
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:02,880
it's one if you really go over you know

1012
00:43:07,250 --> 00:43:04,890
a lot of these historic Clauses cases

1013
00:43:11,210 --> 00:43:07,260
it's one of the cases that really stands

1014
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:11,220
the test of time as far as you know the

1015
00:43:15,770 --> 00:43:14,010
the credibility of the witnesses and the

1016
00:43:18,410 --> 00:43:15,780
fact that there was you know multiple

1017
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:18,420
independent witnesses within that time

1018
00:43:23,069 --> 00:43:21,210
period the fact that the cops were so

1019
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:23,079
experienced and viewed that

1020
00:43:27,479 --> 00:43:24,910
so you know I think it's a very

1021
00:43:29,279 --> 00:43:27,489
significant case for New Hampshire and I

1022
00:43:31,499 --> 00:43:29,289
think it's a very significant case just

1023
00:43:35,279 --> 00:43:31,509
in ufology you know American mythology

1024
00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:35,289
and I think you know obviously the Betty

1025
00:43:38,729 --> 00:43:36,880
and Barney Hill case is probably the

1026
00:43:40,979 --> 00:43:38,739
most well known New Hampshire UFO case

1027
00:43:43,499 --> 00:43:40,989
and you know that rightfully so I mean

1028
00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:43,509
it's it's a very you know well known

1029
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:45,369
case and it's had a lot of cultural

1030
00:43:48,989 --> 00:43:47,410
significance but you know the Exeter

1031
00:43:52,219 --> 00:43:48,999
case I would hold it right up there I

1032
00:43:54,809 --> 00:43:52,229
think it's a you know there's a bit more

1033
00:43:56,579 --> 00:43:54,819
you know having the police there during

1034
00:43:58,680 --> 00:43:56,589
the thing having that sort of credible

1035
00:44:00,509 --> 00:43:58,690
witness there helps it a lot so that's

1036
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,519
pretty much what drew me to it that it's

1037
00:44:04,229 --> 00:44:02,319
a very credible case and there's a lot

1038
00:44:07,499 --> 00:44:04,239
of documents and there's a lot of

1039
00:44:09,089 --> 00:44:07,509
materials to go over yeah you know a lot

1040
00:44:11,130 --> 00:44:09,099
of times people say well why do you why

1041
00:44:13,289 --> 00:44:11,140
do we keep talking about the old cases

1042
00:44:16,199 --> 00:44:13,299
but you know something you just said

1043
00:44:18,779 --> 00:44:16,209
they're kind of strikes pretty solid and

1044
00:44:21,390 --> 00:44:18,789
that is you know some of these cases

1045
00:44:23,579 --> 00:44:21,400
just plain stand the test of time and

1046
00:44:26,609 --> 00:44:23,589
you know there there's never an answer

1047
00:44:29,390 --> 00:44:26,619
for it and you know I don't know where

1048
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:29,400
you can go with something like that but

1049
00:44:35,699 --> 00:44:32,079
one of the things that came to mind had

1050
00:44:38,519 --> 00:44:35,709
anyone claimed any type of an abduction

1051
00:44:39,930 --> 00:44:38,529
or anything like that related to that

1052
00:44:41,759 --> 00:44:39,940
you know how sometimes people come

1053
00:44:43,769 --> 00:44:41,769
forward afterwards and say they had

1054
00:44:46,769 --> 00:44:43,779
missing time or something like that did

1055
00:44:49,289 --> 00:44:46,779
anyone do anything like that um in as

1056
00:44:52,979 --> 00:44:49,299
far as the incident in Exeter not that

1057
00:44:55,769 --> 00:44:52,989
I'm aware of no you know the officers in

1058
00:44:58,019 --> 00:44:55,779
Norman I'm not aware of anything like

1059
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:58,029
that at all but um you know to what you

1060
00:45:01,589 --> 00:44:59,680
said a second ago about you know the

1061
00:45:03,420 --> 00:45:01,599
people that say why bother you know this

1062
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:03,430
is something that I hear a lot because I

1063
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:05,440
tend to focus on more of the historic

1064
00:45:11,459 --> 00:45:08,130
you know I like the older cases myself

1065
00:45:14,009 --> 00:45:11,469
you know people say that a lot and and I

1066
00:45:18,269 --> 00:45:14,019
I don't agree with it because just in my

1067
00:45:20,549 --> 00:45:18,279
experience there's it's a myth that

1068
00:45:23,489 --> 00:45:20,559
there's no new information that can come

1069
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:23,499
can be gleaned from old data I think

1070
00:45:29,729 --> 00:45:26,680
that's a myth and I also think that you

1071
00:45:31,289 --> 00:45:29,739
know like look at cold-case files I mean

1072
00:45:33,630 --> 00:45:31,299
there's a reason why there's cold-case

1073
00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:33,640
files because putting fresh eyes and

1074
00:45:37,059 --> 00:45:35,529
applying the latest information and

1075
00:45:39,699 --> 00:45:37,069
technology to a mystery

1076
00:45:42,249 --> 00:45:39,709
can often you can often glean new

1077
00:45:44,650 --> 00:45:42,259
information so you know I think for that

1078
00:45:46,689 --> 00:45:44,660
reason I think it's important to go back

1079
00:45:50,499 --> 00:45:46,699
if you have the interest over the old

1080
00:45:51,969 --> 00:45:50,509
cases you know I think I think it's very

1081
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:51,979
important and I think it's also

1082
00:45:56,769 --> 00:45:53,839
important for people getting into the

1083
00:45:58,599 --> 00:45:56,779
UFO phenomenon to understand the history

1084
00:46:00,909 --> 00:45:58,609
of it if you really want to try and get

1085
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:00,919
a grasp of you know the phenomenon since

1086
00:46:06,849 --> 00:46:03,529
1947 it's really important that you go

1087
00:46:08,349 --> 00:46:06,859
back to the beginning and learn what has

1088
00:46:10,359 --> 00:46:08,359
happened you know as far as the

1089
00:46:12,339 --> 00:46:10,369
government project Bluebook all of the

1090
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:12,349
documented things that we can you know

1091
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,089
read documents about and that we know

1092
00:46:18,189 --> 00:46:16,400
you know have happened I think that's

1093
00:46:20,049 --> 00:46:18,199
really important too so I think I think

1094
00:46:23,169 --> 00:46:20,059
the past is very important when it comes

1095
00:46:25,359 --> 00:46:23,179
to this subject I agree 100% with

1096
00:46:27,999 --> 00:46:25,369
everything you just said it makes makes

1097
00:46:31,479 --> 00:46:28,009
total sense to you know I mean you're

1098
00:46:33,009 --> 00:46:31,489
right you know you look at any cold-case

1099
00:46:35,229 --> 00:46:33,019
file and you can actually put that into

1100
00:46:37,419 --> 00:46:35,239
like a murder case you know I mean there

1101
00:46:40,059 --> 00:46:37,429
are always cracking murder cases when

1102
00:46:43,089 --> 00:46:40,069
new technology comes along like you know

1103
00:46:47,529 --> 00:46:43,099
DNA came along and you know and you know

1104
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:47,539
now we have like someone's just typing

1105
00:46:51,299 --> 00:46:49,729
right now on that on the chatroom has

1106
00:46:53,469 --> 00:46:51,309
anyone tried to get a FOIA request

1107
00:46:55,870 --> 00:46:53,479
regarding the incident and we have for

1108
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:55,880
you you know sometimes more more things

1109
00:47:00,249 --> 00:46:58,400
can be brought forward through Freedom

1110
00:47:02,349 --> 00:47:00,259
of Information Act you know by

1111
00:47:05,229 --> 00:47:02,359
requesting documents has anyone tried to

1112
00:47:06,009 --> 00:47:05,239
get any papers on that you know that's a

1113
00:47:08,439 --> 00:47:06,019
good question

1114
00:47:12,459 --> 00:47:08,449
um I don't know if they have you know

1115
00:47:15,429 --> 00:47:12,469
the the exeter case you know the project

1116
00:47:19,509 --> 00:47:15,439
Bluebook file is obviously declassified

1117
00:47:20,949 --> 00:47:19,519
that that is out there the the briefing

1118
00:47:25,749 --> 00:47:20,959
document from the congressional hearing

1119
00:47:28,179 --> 00:47:25,759
from 1966 that is out there so there's a

1120
00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:28,189
lot of data out there but I mean that is

1121
00:47:31,269 --> 00:47:29,839
a great idea I mean that that is

1122
00:47:33,370 --> 00:47:31,279
something that maybe somebody should

1123
00:47:34,989 --> 00:47:33,380
look into you know maybe just to make

1124
00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:34,999
sure that there isn't anything maybe

1125
00:47:41,709 --> 00:47:38,900
lingering but you know it's just from

1126
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:41,719
you know being at it for 14 years I

1127
00:47:45,969 --> 00:47:43,729
think it's a great idea but you know

1128
00:47:50,860 --> 00:47:45,979
it's it's definitely a very detailed

1129
00:47:52,810 --> 00:47:50,870
rich case compared to most cases so

1130
00:47:57,130 --> 00:47:52,820
there's a lot out there to read on it

1131
00:47:59,620 --> 00:47:57,140
right now is there any other case that

1132
00:48:03,460 --> 00:47:59,630
you kind of douve into like you did on

1133
00:48:05,950 --> 00:48:03,470
this one in in the area you know I mean

1134
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:05,960
I I don't think there's one that I've

1135
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:08,330
spent quite as much time on I mean I've

1136
00:48:11,710 --> 00:48:09,680
done a you know I've done extensive

1137
00:48:13,660 --> 00:48:11,720
research on you know the Betty and

1138
00:48:15,940 --> 00:48:13,670
Barney Hill case although you know I

1139
00:48:18,460 --> 00:48:15,950
think Kathleen Martin and Stan Freedman

1140
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:18,470
you know they have that case pretty well

1141
00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:21,440
represented so you know not that I don't

1142
00:48:26,170 --> 00:48:24,020
like discussing the case but I just you

1143
00:48:28,210 --> 00:48:26,180
know I like I'm very fascinated with a

1144
00:48:30,370 --> 00:48:28,220
lot of these cases like Exeter and some

1145
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:30,380
other cases that aren't well known but

1146
00:48:36,730 --> 00:48:34,000
another case that's very very very

1147
00:48:38,770 --> 00:48:36,740
fascinating there's another you know

1148
00:48:42,490 --> 00:48:38,780
police case from New Hampshire which was

1149
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:42,500
on October 16 1984 and this is referred

1150
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:46,310
to as the Zeller incident and basically

1151
00:48:51,580 --> 00:48:48,530
what happened was is the Keene Police

1152
00:48:53,140 --> 00:48:51,590
Department got a phone call saying that

1153
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:53,150
there was something hovering over the

1154
00:48:58,510 --> 00:48:56,330
city so officer Zeller you know I don't

1155
00:49:00,250 --> 00:48:58,520
think he really believed the report but

1156
00:49:02,530 --> 00:49:00,260
was alright we have to go check it out

1157
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:02,540
so he got in his car and headed down to

1158
00:49:08,380 --> 00:49:05,510
the area where this object was claimed

1159
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:08,390
to be hovering over the city so as he

1160
00:49:11,710 --> 00:49:09,680
was driving down the road all of a

1161
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:11,720
sudden he seen another car veer off the

1162
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:13,730
road and the people jump out pointing in

1163
00:49:19,390 --> 00:49:16,250
the sky so he looks up there's this

1164
00:49:22,510 --> 00:49:19,400
object so he pulls his cruiser over he's

1165
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:22,520
observing this object and I guess from

1166
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:24,710
what I understand a crowd of about close

1167
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:27,530
to 30 people gathered along with the

1168
00:49:33,130 --> 00:49:31,010
police officer watching this thing so he

1169
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:33,140
decided he was going to aim his

1170
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:35,570
spotlight from the cruiser at this

1171
00:49:39,220 --> 00:49:37,610
object which is hovering you know I

1172
00:49:41,740 --> 00:49:39,230
believe it was around on five or six

1173
00:49:43,690 --> 00:49:41,750
hundred feet in the air as soon as he

1174
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:43,700
aimed his light at this object it

1175
00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:47,330
started floating towards the cruiser and

1176
00:49:52,660 --> 00:49:50,270
descending at the same time apparently

1177
00:49:54,340 --> 00:49:52,670
the people you know around panicked and

1178
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:54,350
kind of run and were scared and you know

1179
00:49:58,030 --> 00:49:55,850
the cop just kept the light on this

1180
00:50:00,280 --> 00:49:58,040
object and it floated right over him in

1181
00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:00,290
the cop car at about a hundred feet and

1182
00:50:05,770 --> 00:50:03,920
just floated away so that one is another

1183
00:50:07,150 --> 00:50:05,780
you know there's a lot of cases in New

1184
00:50:09,370 --> 00:50:07,160
Hampshire where there's police

1185
00:50:11,710 --> 00:50:09,380
involvement and you know as far as my

1186
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:11,720
research you know I always like to try

1187
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:14,210
and focus in on cases that involve the

1188
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,569
police military credible citizens things

1189
00:50:20,349 --> 00:50:19,040
where there's documents things were

1190
00:50:23,260 --> 00:50:20,359
there's things that I can you know

1191
00:50:25,150 --> 00:50:23,270
research and dig into and the zeller

1192
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:25,160
incident that's another great one where

1193
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:28,880
it's it's very hard to kind of you know

1194
00:50:32,620 --> 00:50:31,130
explain the doubt that away with just

1195
00:50:35,140 --> 00:50:32,630
you know kind of conventional aircraft

1196
00:50:41,470 --> 00:50:35,150
so I think that sounds like a weather

1197
00:50:44,770 --> 00:50:41,480
balloon to me just kidding yeah yeah

1198
00:50:47,799 --> 00:50:44,780
yeah we have we have oh I don't know

1199
00:50:50,859 --> 00:50:47,809
about I don't know maybe five to seven

1200
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:50,869
minutes left and do you want to talk

1201
00:50:56,099 --> 00:50:52,640
about any of the stories in your blog or

1202
00:50:58,809 --> 00:50:56,109
would you like to talk some more about

1203
00:51:01,420 --> 00:50:58,819
let me just throw a question at you sure

1204
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:01,430
um you're you're kind of a young person

1205
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:04,000
in the field what do you think about

1206
00:51:11,339 --> 00:51:05,930
disclosure do you think that's ever

1207
00:51:13,450 --> 00:51:11,349
going to happen you know it's you know I

1208
00:51:15,819 --> 00:51:13,460
don't know if it's ever going to happen

1209
00:51:18,789 --> 00:51:15,829
but you know I know there's lots of kind

1210
00:51:20,380 --> 00:51:18,799
of viewpoints and theories on it is it

1211
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:20,390
going to happen how it's going to happen

1212
00:51:27,970 --> 00:51:23,359
and um you know just from studying all

1213
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:27,980
the declassified documents I have I have

1214
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:30,319
a hard time believing that you know the

1215
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:33,250
government's ever going to come out and

1216
00:51:37,930 --> 00:51:35,930
you know just kind of tell us that that

1217
00:51:40,839 --> 00:51:37,940
that's you know that there's aliens or

1218
00:51:43,809 --> 00:51:40,849
UFOs or you know so I mean it's tough

1219
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:43,819
because I guess with the disclosure were

1220
00:51:50,770 --> 00:51:46,160
alluding to the fact that the government

1221
00:51:52,900 --> 00:51:50,780
knows what UFOs are you know and I don't

1222
00:51:55,359 --> 00:51:52,910
know you know I try and keep a very open

1223
00:51:58,569 --> 00:51:55,369
mind as far as my you know my views on

1224
00:52:01,240 --> 00:51:58,579
UFOs and you know I feel that it's

1225
00:52:04,359 --> 00:52:01,250
important in doing research in this area

1226
00:52:06,339 --> 00:52:04,369
that I'm you know I'm not leaning too

1227
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,349
far to one err you know to being too

1228
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:08,000
skeptical or being you know too

1229
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:10,430
accepting of things so I think it's a

1230
00:52:15,370 --> 00:52:13,280
possibility but as far as the government

1231
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:15,380
doing it I don't think that's probably

1232
00:52:19,690 --> 00:52:17,690
gonna be you know gonna happen

1233
00:52:22,059 --> 00:52:19,700
you know it's funny I ask a lot of the

1234
00:52:25,390 --> 00:52:22,069
guests that I have on the show that

1235
00:52:29,130 --> 00:52:25,400
question and you know pretty much across

1236
00:52:31,150 --> 00:52:29,140
the board the same answer you know

1237
00:52:32,620 --> 00:52:31,160
everyone has more or less the same

1238
00:52:37,749 --> 00:52:32,630
minutes or unless you're asking Stephen

1239
00:52:39,849 --> 00:52:37,759
Bassett yeah I think the more you look

1240
00:52:42,490 --> 00:52:39,859
into the the documents that were once

1241
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:42,500
classified and you you look at the

1242
00:52:48,220 --> 00:52:44,930
extent that they you know looked into

1243
00:52:51,490 --> 00:52:48,230
things and at certain times how secret

1244
00:52:53,319 --> 00:52:51,500
they were keeping it for me that's the

1245
00:52:54,910 --> 00:52:53,329
big thing that says to me you know I

1246
00:52:57,759 --> 00:52:54,920
don't know that this is something that

1247
00:53:01,230 --> 00:52:57,769
they're gonna you know they're gonna

1248
00:53:02,410 --> 00:53:01,240
come out and just reveal yeah yeah and

1249
00:53:05,549 --> 00:53:02,420
oops

1250
00:53:09,970 --> 00:53:05,559
let's see we have another question here

1251
00:53:14,220 --> 00:53:09,980
I am sorry it just it's funny this chat

1252
00:53:17,769 --> 00:53:14,230
board kind of floats up sometimes and

1253
00:53:18,569 --> 00:53:17,779
you know what it's gone so sorry about

1254
00:53:23,349 --> 00:53:18,579
that

1255
00:53:25,299 --> 00:53:23,359
yep do you attend any conferences do you

1256
00:53:27,549 --> 00:53:25,309
do you ever speak you're very

1257
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:27,559
well-spoken at this oh thank you very

1258
00:53:33,819 --> 00:53:31,119
much um actually I was um involved with

1259
00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:33,829
helping Dean merchant who was the

1260
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:36,920
original creator of the Exeter UFO

1261
00:53:41,769 --> 00:53:38,960
festival I'm a you know a colleague and

1262
00:53:43,870 --> 00:53:41,779
a friend of Dean and I did help him you

1263
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:43,880
know a little bit as far as consulting

1264
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:45,410
and doing some of the social media for

1265
00:53:53,589 --> 00:53:49,599
Exeter I was slated to speak in 2012 but

1266
00:53:55,059 --> 00:53:53,599
unfortunately I'm sorry 2013 I was

1267
00:53:56,529 --> 00:53:55,069
supposed to speak this past summer but

1268
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:56,539
they had to cancer the eggs or a

1269
00:54:03,069 --> 00:53:59,599
festival due to a fire at the town hall

1270
00:54:05,410 --> 00:54:03,079
where it was normally held so I hadn't I

1271
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:05,420
haven't done any speaking on the subject

1272
00:54:11,769 --> 00:54:08,000
I was supposed to do Exeter but that

1273
00:54:14,670 --> 00:54:11,779
could canceled you know I guess it's

1274
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:14,680
tough because I guess I am a little

1275
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:18,170
mixed on you know the UFO conferences

1276
00:54:23,380 --> 00:54:20,000
and stuff like that I have kind of mixed

1277
00:54:25,749 --> 00:54:23,390
feelings about them so it I kinda it

1278
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:25,759
would have to I'd have to take it on an

1279
00:54:30,370 --> 00:54:28,250
individual basis you know like sure

1280
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:30,380
which one it was where is it

1281
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:32,570
going to be speaking there because you

1282
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:34,730
know I think that's the one you know

1283
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:36,530
there's one of the negatives to those

1284
00:54:46,690 --> 00:54:40,310
things is you know oh they don't always

1285
00:54:49,900 --> 00:54:46,700
focus on evidence and documentation in

1286
00:54:52,810 --> 00:54:49,910
so you know and there's a lot of you

1287
00:54:55,090 --> 00:54:52,820
know family and tchotchkes being sold

1288
00:54:56,380 --> 00:54:55,100
and either there's a whole thing that

1289
00:54:58,570 --> 00:54:56,390
goes with it and there's nothing wrong

1290
00:55:01,990 --> 00:54:58,580
with that but you know unfortunately

1291
00:55:04,810 --> 00:55:02,000
those sort of things tend to marginalize

1292
00:55:06,940 --> 00:55:04,820
the subject to a certain degree so

1293
00:55:09,850 --> 00:55:06,950
absolutely actually I think there is

1294
00:55:11,710 --> 00:55:09,860
something wrong with that yeah I think

1295
00:55:14,740 --> 00:55:11,720
this should be banned from selling any

1296
00:55:17,410 --> 00:55:14,750
of the alien paraphernalia at these

1297
00:55:19,420 --> 00:55:17,420
things it just really makes you know

1298
00:55:21,730 --> 00:55:19,430
what happens is the media comes in there

1299
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:21,740
and they focus on it they'll focus on

1300
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:24,410
the guy with the tinfoil hat and make

1301
00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:26,210
mockery of the whole thing and then you

1302
00:55:31,780 --> 00:55:28,640
know the whole cause of the thing just

1303
00:55:34,270 --> 00:55:31,790
goes down down the drain so yeah I

1304
00:55:35,830 --> 00:55:34,280
really wish I wish that wouldn't be

1305
00:55:37,660 --> 00:55:35,840
allowed you know I mean t-shirts

1306
00:55:38,770 --> 00:55:37,670
something like that fine but you know

1307
00:55:40,570 --> 00:55:38,780
when they have those little plastic

1308
00:55:42,130 --> 00:55:40,580
aliens and you know the things you put

1309
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:42,140
on your refrigerator and stuff like that

1310
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:43,910
it gets a little carried away

1311
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:46,970
it does what was great about Exeter is

1312
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:50,450
at Exeter all of the town local

1313
00:55:54,550 --> 00:55:52,250
businesses wouldn't you know have little

1314
00:55:57,010 --> 00:55:54,560
alien things and would so but at the

1315
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:57,020
actual event itself there was just the

1316
00:56:00,640 --> 00:55:58,880
speakers and there was a room where the

1317
00:56:03,010 --> 00:56:00,650
speakers could sell their books so you

1318
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:03,020
know there were still people outside

1319
00:56:07,900 --> 00:56:04,880
with alien costumes and you know there

1320
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:07,910
was events separate from the lectures

1321
00:56:12,220 --> 00:56:10,250
but that was one of the great things you

1322
00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:12,230
know they kept kind of the fun

1323
00:56:17,350 --> 00:56:15,440
activities in the actual lectures there

1324
00:56:18,610 --> 00:56:17,360
was a little separation from that so it

1325
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:18,620
wasn't like this you know big

1326
00:56:23,620 --> 00:56:22,250
bombardment of you know alien toys and

1327
00:56:25,930 --> 00:56:23,630
so you know that was one of the things

1328
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:25,940
that I you know think is good about the

1329
00:56:30,550 --> 00:56:28,130
Exeter you know that they didn't allow

1330
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:30,560
outside vendors and you know they let

1331
00:56:35,890 --> 00:56:32,720
the local town you know try and get some

1332
00:56:37,690 --> 00:56:35,900
extra income from selling you know alien

1333
00:56:39,010 --> 00:56:37,700
related things if they wanted to so I

1334
00:56:41,590 --> 00:56:39,020
thought I thought that was kind of nice

1335
00:56:43,210 --> 00:56:41,600
about now do you know why that was

1336
00:56:44,499 --> 00:56:43,220
cancelled this year was that just not

1337
00:56:47,019 --> 00:56:44,509
well attended last

1338
00:56:50,799 --> 00:56:47,029
no actually like I mentioned there was

1339
00:56:53,559 --> 00:56:50,809
um it's held a historic Exeter Town Hall

1340
00:56:56,199 --> 00:56:53,569
and it was struck by lightning oh that's

1341
00:56:58,209 --> 00:56:56,209
where that happened yeah initially they

1342
00:57:01,809 --> 00:56:58,219
thought it was the repairs were gonna be

1343
00:57:03,849 --> 00:57:01,819
done in time to still do it but then it

1344
00:57:07,929 --> 00:57:03,859
wasn't and they couldn't find a suitable

1345
00:57:11,259 --> 00:57:07,939
venue so from what I understand now Dean

1346
00:57:13,569 --> 00:57:11,269
who is the creator and the organizer he

1347
00:57:15,339 --> 00:57:13,579
handed over the festival to the Exeter

1348
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:15,349
Kiwanis last January

1349
00:57:20,229 --> 00:57:18,079
so the Exeter Kiwanis are now at the

1350
00:57:22,029 --> 00:57:20,239
helm so I'm not really sure what's going

1351
00:57:23,799 --> 00:57:22,039
on this year I know they have announced

1352
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:23,809
that they're going to be doing one in

1353
00:57:28,209 --> 00:57:26,569
2014 but not much else has been

1354
00:57:30,459 --> 00:57:28,219
announced others that they plan on

1355
00:57:32,169 --> 00:57:30,469
having more very good well Ryan we're

1356
00:57:33,489 --> 00:57:32,179
out of time I want to thank you so much

1357
00:57:35,979 --> 00:57:33,499
for being on the show and I like your

1358
00:57:37,479 --> 00:57:35,989
balanced attitude and you know I'm going

1359
00:57:39,489 --> 00:57:37,489
to invite you back someday because I

1360
00:57:40,479 --> 00:57:39,499
thought you did a nice job oh thank you

1361
00:57:41,979 --> 00:57:40,489
so much more than that

1362
00:57:43,929 --> 00:57:41,989
I thought you did a great job too and I

1363
00:57:45,999 --> 00:57:43,939
really enjoyed this very good well

1364
00:57:47,799 --> 00:57:46,009
that's it for the show today if you miss

1365
00:57:49,959 --> 00:57:47,809
any part of this show you can catch it

1366
00:57:52,179 --> 00:57:49,969
as a podcast and a whole bunch of other

1367
00:57:55,389 --> 00:57:52,189
free podcasts on our website which is

1368
00:57:57,129 --> 00:57:55,399
podcast UFO com you can also check out

1369
00:57:59,049 --> 00:57:57,139
our links to the stories and our show

1370
00:58:01,509 --> 00:57:59,059
notes as well as joining in the

1371
00:58:02,949 --> 00:58:01,519
conversation on our forums I want to

1372
00:58:03,639 --> 00:58:02,959
thank everyone for helping out with the

1373
00:58:06,099 --> 00:58:03,649
show today

1374
00:58:08,859 --> 00:58:06,109
Keith Roland for producing dark matter

1375
00:58:11,229 --> 00:58:08,869
radio network John Tobin for joining us

1376
00:58:13,689 --> 00:58:11,239
for the news Andy Fleming for the

1377
00:58:16,299 --> 00:58:13,699
astronomy look Carrie Lloyd Whitehouse

1378
00:58:18,849 --> 00:58:16,309
we have actually sui vac for the break

1379
00:58:20,889 --> 00:58:18,859
music today Peggy's shining for managing

1380
00:58:23,919 --> 00:58:20,899
the Facebook page and remember to like

1381
00:58:27,279 --> 00:58:23,929
us on Facebook for all your the latest

1382
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:27,289
UFO news you can check us out live right

1383
00:58:31,539 --> 00:58:29,599
here next week at the Dark Matter Radio

1384
00:58:33,369 --> 00:58:31,549
Network and every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

1385
00:58:36,009 --> 00:58:33,379
eastern standard time don't forget to

1386
00:58:39,039 --> 00:58:36,019
jump in the chat room at podcast UFO